Should government support religion, or keep church and state apart?

OCR: 1 cited passage(s) are machine-read (OCR) text of old printings; quotations reproduce the stored OCR text, misreadings included.

Reporter's notes: some cited speeches survive only as a reporter's shorthand record, not the speaker's own text.

1. WHAT HE SAID (the record)

Record ledger

• BELIEF (1776-06-27): James Madison believed that government should not interfere with the exercise of religion and that all men are equally entitled to the full and free exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience. He argued for excluding the term 'toleration' and instead promoting an absolute and equal right to religious exercise, free from government emoluments, privileges, penalties, or disabilities, unless the preservation of equal liberty and the existence of the State were manifestly endangered. [1]
• BELIEF (undated): James Madison believed that government should not support religion and that religion should be wholly exempt from the cognizance of civil society. He argued that the duty of religion is a personal and unalienable right, and that civil society has no authority over religious matters. "We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no man's right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society, and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance." [2]
• BELIEF (undated): James Madison believed that government should not support religion, arguing that such establishments are not necessary for the support of civil government and that they can lead to tyranny and the persecution of religious minorities. He also believed that a just government should protect every citizen's right to enjoy their religion equally. "If Religion be not within [the] cognizance of Civil Government, how can its legal establishment be said to be necessary to civil Government? ... A just government, instituted to secure & perpetuate it, needs them not." [3]
• BELIEF (1785-05-29): James Madison believed that government support for the religion of the majority is unjust, foreign to Congress's authority, harmful to public land sales, and rooted in 'antiquated Bigotry.' He argued that such support violates religious liberty and could repel people from settling in new territories. "How a regulation so unjust in itself, so foreign to the Authority of Congs, so hurtful to the sale of the public land, and smelling so strongly of an antiquated Bigotry, could have received the countenance of a Comtildetee is truly matter of astonishment." [4]
• BELIEF (undated): James Madison believed that the government should not interfere in matters of religion, as he argued that such power is not included in the jurisdiction of the legislative body. He also believed that allowing the government to support a specific church leads to injustice and inconsistency. "Because the law admits the power of the Legislative Body to interfere in matters of Religion which we think is not included in their jurisdiction." [5]
• BELIEF (1788-06-12; reporter's paraphrase): James Madison believed that the government should not interfere with religion and that religious freedom is best secured by the multiplicity of sects in America. He argued that the general government has no right to meddle with religion and that such interference would be a 'most flagrant usurpation.' "There is not a shadow of right in the general government to intermeddle with religion. Its least interference with it, would be a most flagrant usurpation." [6]
• BELIEF (1788-10-16): James Madison believed that government should keep church and state apart, arguing that the Constitution's structure and the limited powers of the federal government provided sufficient security for religious rights, and that bills of rights were often ineffective in practice. He also noted that even with explicit protections, religious establishments could still be supported by popular majorities. "I am sure that the rights of Conscience in particular, if submitted to public definition would be narrowed much more than they are likely ever to be by an assumed power... Notwithstanding the explicit provision contained in that instrument for the rights of Conscience it is well known that a religious establishment wd. have taken place in that State, if the legislative majority had found as they expected, a majority of the people in favor of the measure." [7]
• BELIEF (undated): James Madison argued that the freedom of the press and the free exercise of religion are both protected by the Constitution in similar ways, implying that the government should not regulate or interfere with religion, just as it should not with the press. This suggests his belief in keeping church and state apart. "Any construction, therefore, that would attack this original security for the one must have the like effect on the other." [8]
• ACTION (1811-02-21): James Madison vetoed a bill on February 21, 1811, that sought to incorporate the Protestant Episcopal Church in Alexandria. He argued that the bill violated the Constitution by establishing a religious organization through law and by granting it authority to perform public and civil duties, thereby blurring the separation of church and state. (key quote above) [9]
• ACTION (1811-02-28): James Madison vetoed a bill on February 28, 1811, because it would have set a precedent for the appropriation of federal funds for the use and support of religious societies, which he believed violated the Constitution's prohibition on a religious establishment. "Because the bill in reserving a certain parcel of land of the United States for the use of said Baptist Church comprises a principle and precedent for the appropriation of funds of the United States for the use and support of religious societies, contrary to the article of the Constitution which declares that 'Congress shall make no law respecting a religious establishment.'" [10]

What cuts against it

• ACTION (1811-02-21): James Madison vetoed a bill that sought to incorporate the Protestant Episcopal Church, arguing it violated the Constitution by establishing a religious organization through law. However, this action aligns with his stated belief in separation of church and state, so it does not cut against it. [9]

• ACTION (1811-02-28): James Madison vetoed a bill that would have set a precedent for the appropriation of federal funds for the use and support of religious societies, arguing it violated the Constitution's prohibition on a religious establishment. This action aligns with his stated belief in separation of church and state, so it does not cut against it. [10]

• BELIEF (1832): James Madison believed that government should not support religion, and that religion does not need government support. This belief does not cut against his position on keeping church and state apart. [11]

2. HOW IT APPLIES (reasoning; inference is marked)

1. James Madison believed that government should not interfere in matters of religion, arguing that such power is not included in the jurisdiction of the legislative body. [5]

2. He argued that allowing the government to support a specific church leads to injustice and inconsistency. [5]

3. He believed that civil government does not require religious establishment to be stable and that the separation of church and state increases the number, industry, and morality of the priesthood and the devotion of the people. [12]

4. He argued that religion is essentially distinct from civil government and that a connection between them is injurious to both. [13]

5. He believed that the government should not support religion, and that religion does not need government support. [11]

3. HIS TAKE

Record coverage: DIRECT

James Madison directly addressed the question of whether government should support religion or keep church and state apart. He consistently argued for the separation of church and state, believing that government should not interfere in religious matters and that such interference leads to tyranny and the persecution of religious minorities.

Extrapolation: James Madison would argue that government should keep church and state apart, as this separation ensures the purity of both religion and government and protects the rights of all citizens to practice their religion freely.

Competing readings: None. The record directly supports the position that government should not support religion and should keep church and state apart.

Confidence: High. The record provides direct and consistent evidence of James Madison's belief in the separation of church and state.

OCR: 1 cited passage(s) are machine-read (OCR) text of old printings; quotations reproduce the stored OCR text, misreadings included.

1. WHAT HE SAID (the record)

Record ledger

• BELIEF (1776-10): Thomas Jefferson believed that government should not interfere in religious matters and that individuals should be free to practice their religion without prejudice or punishment. He argued that no one should be punished for their religious beliefs and that the care of one's soul is a personal responsibility, not a governmental one. "We have no right to prejudice another in his civil enjoiments because he is of another church...Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves." [1]
• BELIEF (undated): Thomas Jefferson believed that government should not support religion and that religious opinion should not be subject to coercion. He argued that truth does not need government support, and that coercion leads to foolishness and hypocrisy rather than uniformity. "Reason and experiment have been indulged, and error has fled before them. It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself." [2]
• BELIEF (1789-09-30): Thomas Jefferson believed that religion does not need government support to overcome error and that truth will prevail if left to herself. He argued that truth is the proper and sufficient antagonist of error and does not need human interposition to succeed. [3]
• BELIEF (1798-11): Thomas Jefferson believed that the government should not abridge the freedom of religion, speech, or the press. He argued that these freedoms are reserved to the states or the people and that Congress has no authority to make laws that restrict them, as stated in the First Amendment. (key quote above) [4]
• BELIEF (1798-11): Thomas Jefferson believed that the government should not abridge the freedom of religion, speech, or the press. He argued that these freedoms are reserved to the states or the people and that Congress has no authority to make laws that interfere with them. "And thus also they guarded against all abridgment by the United States of the freedom of religious opinions and exercises, and retained to themselves the right of protecting the same" [5]
• ACTION (1800): Thomas Jefferson prepared and promoted an act for religious freedom, which was passed in 1785. This shows he supported keeping church and state apart, as the act aimed to end state support for religion and ensure freedom of religion. "I prepared the act for religious freedom in 1777, as part of the revisal, which was not reported to the Assembly till 1779, and that particular law not passed till 1785, and then by the efforts of Mr. Madison." [6]
• BELIEF (1802-01-01): Thomas Jefferson believed that religion is a matter solely between man and his God, and that the government should keep church and state apart. He expressed this belief by stating that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, not opinions, and by referring to the First Amendment as building a 'wall of separation between church and State.' "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, ... thus building a wall of separation between church and State." [7]
• BELIEF (1807-11-13): Thomas Jefferson believed that the government should support religious principles that align with public morality and the general welfare. He expressed this in his belief that the Society of Friends' religious principles of humanity and peace were aligned with the government's actions to preserve peace and promote the well-being of all people, including Native Americans. "It was dictated by the principles of humanity, the precepts of the gospel, and the general wish of our country, and it was not to be doubted that the Society of Friends, with whom it is a _religious_ principle, would sanction it by their support." [8]
• BELIEF (1808-01-23): Thomas Jefferson believed that the government of the United States should not intermeddle with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. He argued that the Constitution precluded the federal government from assuming authority over religious exercises, and he opposed the idea of inviting the civil magistrate to direct religious practices or doctrines. "I consider the government of the US. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises." [9]
• BELIEF (1808-11-21): Thomas Jefferson believed that government should keep church and state apart. He argued that freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws, and that individuals should be free to profess their own religious principles without government interference. "We have solved by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government, and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason, and the serious convictions of his own inquiries." [10]

What cuts against it

• BELIEF (1816-08-06): Thomas Jefferson believed that religion should be a concern purely between individuals and their God, and that government should not interfere. He argued that religion should not be subject to the dictates of priests or institutional control, and that the state should not impose religious doctrines. "I have ever thought religion a concern purely between our God and our consciences, for which we were accountable to him, and not to the priests." [11]

• ACTION (1822-11-02): Thomas Jefferson believed that government should not establish a public religious instruction but should encourage religious sects to establish their own professorships independently. He argued that this approach would promote religious tolerance and prevent government entanglement in religious affairs. "after stating the constitutional reasons against a public establishment of any religious instruction, we suggest the expediency of encouraging the different religious sects to establish, each for itself, a professorship of their own tenets" [12]

2. HOW IT APPLIES (reasoning; inference is marked)

1. Thomas Jefferson believed that government should not interfere in religious matters. He argued that individuals should be free to practice their religion without prejudice or punishment. "We have no right to prejudice another in his civil enjoiments because he is of another church...Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves." [1]

2. He believed that the government should not support religion and that religious opinion should not be subject to coercion. He argued that truth does not need government support, and that coercion leads to foolishness and hypocrisy rather than uniformity. "Reason and experiment have been indulged, and error has fled before them. It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself." [2]

3. Jefferson believed that religion does not need government support to overcome error and that truth will prevail if left to herself. He argued that truth is the proper and sufficient antagonist of error and does not need human interposition to succeed. [3]

4. He believed that the government should not abridge the freedom of religion, speech, or the press. He argued that these freedoms are reserved to the states or the people and that Congress has no authority to make laws that restrict them, as stated in the First Amendment. (key quote above) [4]

5. Jefferson believed that the government should not intermeddle with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. He argued that the Constitution precluded the federal government from assuming authority over religious exercises, and he opposed the idea of inviting the civil magistrate to direct religious practices or doctrines. "I consider the government of the US. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises." [9]

3. HIS TAKE

Record coverage: DIRECT

Extrapolation: Thomas Jefferson believed that the government should keep church and state apart and should not support religion. He argued that religious freedom is essential and that the government should not interfere in religious matters. He believed that truth and reason would prevail without government support, and that coercion in religious matters leads to foolishness and hypocrisy.

Competing readings: One reading is that Jefferson believed the government should not support religion and should keep church and state apart. Another reading is that he believed the government should support religious principles that align with public morality and the general welfare. The record itself states both readings, with the former being more consistent with his actions and the latter being an inference from his letter to the Society of Friends.

Confidence: High, based on the direct statements and actions of Thomas Jefferson regarding the separation of church and state and the importance of religious freedom.

OCR: 11 cited passage(s) are machine-read (OCR) text of old printings; quotations reproduce the stored OCR text, misreadings included.

Reporter's notes: some cited speeches survive only as a reporter's shorthand record, not the speaker's own text.

1. WHAT HE SAID (the record)

Record ledger

• BELIEF (1779-05-17): The passage shows that the author believed government should support religion, as part of a plan to introduce 'benevolent religion' among 'heathen and Savage Nations' and to provide a refuge for 'pious industrious people' to live in a place of 'religion and virtue.' (key quote above) [1]
• BELIEF (1788-06-04; reporter's paraphrase): Patrick Henry believed that the government should not take away or impair the freedom of religion. He argued that the variety of sects in the United States is the best security for religious freedom, and that no part of the Constitution would justify a conclusion that the general government could interfere with it. (key quote above) [2]
• BELIEF (1788-06-04; reporter's paraphrase): Patrick Henry believed that government should not rest religion on logical deduction or human policy, as this could lead to disputes and the prostitution of religion to secular purposes. (key quote above) [3]
• ACTION (editor's note) (undated; editor's note, not his words): Patrick Henry was absent from the House of Delegates and did not participate in the consideration of the bill. The bill, which proposed a tax for the support of secular education with a religious option, was postponed for further consideration until the next session. "Mr. Henry, the father of the scheme, is gone up to his seat for his family, and will no more sit in the House of Delegates — a circumstance very inauspicious to his offspring." [4]
• ACTION (editor's note) (undated; editor's note, not his words): The passage reports that Patrick Henry was not directly involved in the actions described, but it does mention the context of the debate over government support for religion, including a petition from Isle of Wight County and a memorial from Hanover Presbytery in October 1784. It also notes the position of the Baptist Associations and Mr. Madison's letter to Mr. Jefferson in January 1785. "The subject of assessment was introduced by a petition from Isle of Wight County, urging the necessity of such a measure; and by a memorial of Hanover Presbytery, adopted at its October session, 1784, consenting to what they deemed inevitable." [5]
• ACTION (editor's note) (undated; editor's note, not his words): The passage reports that Patrick Henry's bill for the support of the Episcopal clergy, which had been suspended from year to year since 1776, was repealed at the next session. It also notes that the Baptist Association urged the Legislature to pass Mr. Jefferson's bill, and that various groups presented memorials regarding the support of religion and the privileges of the Episcopal Church. "The act for the support of the Episcopal clergy, which had been suspended from year to year since 1776, was repealed." [6]
• ACTION (editor's note) (undated; editor's note, not his words): Patrick Henry gave assurances that quieted those apprehensive about the force of their own principles in the bill of rights. The Presbytery had expressed the proper relations of Church and State with remarkable precision and force before Jefferson drafted his bill. "But they were patriots who dreaded nothing so much as a schism among the people, and thought the American principle too pure to be adulterated by religious dissension." [7]
• ACTION (editor's note) (undated; editor's note, not his words): Patrick Henry was chairman of the committee to draft a bill for the support of the Christian religion and for the incorporation of the Protestant Episcopal Church. The editor states that it is 'quite certain that he approved of them.' "Mr. Henry was chairman of the commit tee to draft the bill. ... but it is quite certain that he approved of them." [8]
• BELIEF (undated): Patrick Henry believed that government should not favor or establish any particular religious sect or society by law, and that all men have an equal, natural, and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience. This is based on his argument that religion should be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. "That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence, and therefore all men have an equal, natural, and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion according to the dictates of conscience, and that no particular religious sect or society ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others." [9]
• ACTION (editor's note) (undated; editor's note, not his words): The editor reports that at the session of 1786, the act of incorporation of 1784 was repealed in accordance with the earnest petitions of the Presbyterian and Baptist population. In 1799, all other acts deemed inconsistent with the Bill of Rights as defined by Mr. Jefferson's bill were repealed, and in 1802, the glebe lands were taken away and applied to public uses. "At the session of 1786, the act of incorporation of 1784 was repealed, in accordance with the earnest petitions of the Presbyterian and Baptist population." [10]

What cuts against it

• ACTION (editor's note) (undated): Patrick Henry acted to preserve a bill for the incorporation of the Episcopal Church during a legislative session, though the bill was postponed until the next session. "Mr. Madison, in writing about the proposal, said : 'Extraordinary as such a project was, it was preserved from a dishonorable death by the talents of Mr. Henry.'" [11]

2. HOW IT APPLIES (reasoning; inference is marked)

1. Patrick Henry believed that the government should not take away or impair the freedom of religion. (key quote above) [2]

2. He argued that the variety of sects in the United States is the best security for religious freedom. [2]

3. He believed that government should not rest religion on logical deduction or human policy, as this could lead to disputes and the prostitution of religion to secular purposes. (key quote above) [3]

4. The editor reports that Patrick Henry inserted a principle into the Bill of Rights that has been recognized as the basis for keeping church and state apart. "it is nothing more than an exposition of the principle inserted by Mr. Henry into the Bill of Eights," [12]

5. The editor also reports that Patrick Henry's advocacy of the assessment bill and the incorporation act has been considered a blunder, but his views were approved by Washington, Richard Henry Lee, John Marshall, and Henry Tazewell. "Mr. Henry's advocacy of the assessment bill, and the incorporation act, has been considered a blunder." [13]

3. HIS TAKE

Record coverage: PARTIAL

The record is silent on whether Patrick Henry believed that government should support religion in general, but it does show that he supported the incorporation of the Protestant Episcopal Church and the assessment bill for the support of the Christian religion.

Extrapolation: Patrick Henry's position on whether government should support religion or keep church and state apart is complex. On one hand, he believed that the government should not take away or impair the freedom of religion and that the variety of sects in the United States is the best security for religious freedom. On the other hand, he supported the incorporation of the Protestant Episcopal Church and the assessment bill for the support of the Christian religion.

Competing readings: One reading is that Patrick Henry believed in the separation of church and state, as evidenced by his belief that the government should not take away or impair the freedom of religion. Another reading is that he supported government support for religion, as evidenced by his support for the incorporation of the Protestant Episcopal Church and the assessment bill for the support of the Christian religion. The record itself states that his views were approved by Washington, Richard Henry Lee, John Marshall, and Henry Tazewell.

Confidence: Moderate, based on the conflicting evidence in the record and the fact that some of the evidence is from editor's notes rather than direct statements by Patrick Henry.